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Forum - God or not God?

I wasn't sure just how to set this up as a poll but:

Last night I was watching Frontline. I came into it nearly in the middle of the show but it was a montage of interviews with survivors of 9/11, those who lost loved ones, and men from various religious denomiations. At one point they were all asked about how they felt about/towards God. I found it very interesting that even some of the Priest's and Rabbi's interviewed had lost faith in God, citing that God could not have allowed this to have happened, had he been the just and loving God they'd grown up to know. Other's felt they still had God in their lives and that the events of 9/11 were for some higher purpose which was known only to God but they also felt comfort in knowing that their loved ones were with him.

I know for a fact that every human on this planet was affected by the events of 9/11; we were faced with our own mortality and turned to God for answers and strength. In my case my faith strengthened. In my husband's case, he lost all faith because no "loving" God would have allowed this to have happened so there is NO God for him. I beleive that God gave us (all of humanity) the choice of free will and the responsibilities and consequences that come with it. It was that free will that allowed 9/11 to take place. God merely stood out of the way and let the pieces fall where they may ( for lack of a better phrase). [Oh Well] The God I know says that he would prefer that none of his beloved children should parish but that he would not stand in our way when we exercize free will.
So my question is this: How has 9/11 affected your faith?
Sep 04 @ 19:13
That is a good question, and I can only speak for myself. 9/11 definitely made my spiritual beliefs stronger. As I watched footage of people leaping from those buildings I said prayers for them, and for all of the children who would grow up without a parent, and for all the husbands, wives, lovers and parents who would miss someone very dear to them. I seldom get on my knees to pray, but I did that day.
I spent the following Sunday in church services that I am ashamed to admit, I don't go to often enough. I, like many others there, wept openly, something I had never done before. I am fortunate to go to a church that is blessed with a well educated, learned pastor, who has the gift of being able to explain and soothe.
If anything positive came out of 9/11, I would have to say it made America's largest cities into small towns again. At least for a few days, we were united, and I saw people open up to one another in ways that I don't recall seeing before. Neighbors and strangers spoke, families gave thanks for their loved ones, and children were held a little closer. The (bleepin' bleeps) thought they could destroy us, but I like to think most of us stiffened our backbones, walked a little straighter, and felt more of a kindred spirit with those around us. America is a family, a big, quarrelsome, dysfunctional family, but we love each other. For the first time, a true daughter of the South, and ninth generation Texan, was heard to utter the words, "I love New York", and really mean it. [Wink]
Sep 04 @ 20:28
Great topic, Mss Grrl. I've only got a few moments right now, but I took the liberty of making a poll for it as well.

Sep 05 @ 06:37
Kell! You are the absolute best! Here's something for you:


NayNay [Smile]

[ September 05, 2002, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Miss Grrl ]
Sep 05 @ 13:19
I understand how many would believe that God failed them and their brothers and sisters. It was a difficult and painful time. The memory still hurts.
Though I do agree with you Miss Grrl. God gave us all free will. The greatest gift next to giving us existance. For good or or will, we choose to excersize that free will. That's the way it seems God wants it. It wouldn't be free will if stopped the lost from doing bad things. I'm sorry it ever came to that. Like you said Miss Grrl, it's not what God hopes any of his children would do.

My faith I believe has gotten stronger. My love for God, everyone and everything has become deeper.
Sep 09 @ 13:51
Very Interesting question Miss Grrl. I have not lost faith because of 9/11. It is my belief that it did have a higher purpose. I watched the tragedies occur while waiting for my ride to my doctors office for my post op follow up and later in the office. I listened to the other patients who waited and watched. I saw their shock and dismay followed by anger and hate for those that had committed these acts. And I sat and prayed for those who were taken that day and those whose lives would be forever changed by the events. And I prayed for those who had committed these acts. Finally, I prayed for the people of this world to awaken and realize that hate is the problem. We may never agree with one another but we should have respect for the other's point of view or beliefs not hate.

In the native communities, there are prophecies about the things to come. How man will continue to hurt one another and the earth until an understanding is reached that we can not continue to live this way. Too many people have perished in the name of religion and their wars. At one point in time, the drums that I dearly love to make could have meant my death. Those of the 'black robes'(christians) would have followed the sound of the drums and would have killed my people because we worshiped a different way. So I can not hate those who call their creator by other names like god, allah or jehovah. My faith helps me to believe that someday, we will all live together in peace and harmony. My medicine wheel of white, yellow, red and black are for all the races of this world.

Hopefully, this makes sense. I am not good with words expressing my faith or feelings. Often words do not seem adequit for thes things.

Sep 17 @ 01:18
This is an interesting thread, MissGrrl! I do think that mankind is going to have to be the one to take the blame for this, though, and I don't believe that the creator will stop things like this, merely because it is how mankind must learn not to make war on their own kind.

Diane, what you said made alot of sense to me, and I know that must give you an eerie feeling about your drums... knowing that in the history of the whiteman coming to this country, drums just like yours led the whites to your ancestor's homes, to wipe out any and all of the families, save a few who may have been lucky enough to escape. The color of a person's skin, and the way they choose to worship, has nothing whatsoever to do with what is in their hearts.... unless that religion teaches them to hate all who are not exactly like themselves. It is an extremely big lesson, and a hard one! But, consider just how much more mankind could accomplish on this planet, if only they could live at peace with all men... it is an awesome thought, and one that the Creator, All That Is, or Great Spirit, would surely bless all of mankind for having the wisdom to see it through, and make a final and lasting peace a reality.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts here.... I know that we all love peace here. We must somehow teach our brothers and sisters in the world.

Sep 17 @ 06:28
I agree that we all need to teach our brothers and sister about world peace...teh question is HOW? My mom has this theroy that if enough people stand up and make a ruckus about world peace that somehow it will send the message and thus world peace. In theroy that sounds nice, but I can't see that ever happening. Human's are too, what's the word, inbred to foster hate: the man with the turban on his head in Mesa was shot because he was different, seen as the enemy and it turned out he was Seik NOT muslum. The KKK and their "white spuremacy" $h!t [Mad] How do I promote world peace in my own household when I am teaching my boys to stand up for themselves and not let people walk all over them? There is a fine line drawn between living a peacful life and allowing someone to bully you. How do I promote world peace when I have to, for survival sake, teach my boys about stranger danger?

I guess my faith in the Supreme has strengthened but my faith in the milk of human kindness has diminished. Don't get me wrong...I want, we NEED world peace. I just don't know how that can be attained when there is so much "evil" in this world [Oh Well]
Sep 17 @ 13:56
Drummaker, Make sense? I loved what you said. It made perfect sense. I agree completely. I always pray for the victims of anothers cruelty and for the one(s) who commited the act. Just imagine what their world must be like. How messed up their mind and soul is to be able to do what they have done. I pray for them to understand and realize all the implications of their actions and learn compassion for those they hurt and for themselves.

Mss Grrl, how? Awareness. Understanding. All children need to learn about stranger danger but they also need to learn that this danger is from an extremely small percentage of the population who are sick in thier minds and maybe their souls. That you can protect yourself by being alert and aware and if necessary act with violence in defense of yourself or to protect othes. But also to understand why you have to behave that way. What it means. Why people would want to harm you.
When we are more aware of everyone and everything we can put ourselves in the other persons shoes. We can then feel as they do and understand them. If Osama and all those people understood that they are not attacking the people that caused suffering amoung their people I hope they would not have done what they did. But they grouped all people in America and basically outside of Islam as their enemy. They do not understand that this is not true. Their awareness is limited by their rigid belief structure. They refuse to feel compassion for anyone they believe is wrong. They can't grasp in their limited awareness that we are all brothers and sisters, part of the same whole.
Until the whole world can grasp at least some of that we will not have peace. Someone will always desire something from someone else. Money, power, revenge, etc... . Until they are aware that these things mean nothing they will always chase these phantoms.
Saints of all religions all have one thing in common. They are/were aware of the greater whole. They loved all. They understood.
Osama is not a saint.
Sep 18 @ 13:12
Well put, Nakis. And you're right. Looking at the whole. Thanks for the wise reminder, I guess I needed that. [Oh Well] Sometimes I get lost in feeling helpless and/or overwhelmed and wonder what's the point. Praying for the victims as well as the perpatrator clears one's soul and keeps us focused on continuing to be like Christ. No doubt had he been alive during this time in our world, he would be doing the same thing, praying for all not just a few chosen.
Sep 18 @ 14:49
God or not God?

I had parents. They made me.
I guess in a higher sense God obviously made me as well.
I remember I had a home to go to after school.
Life is like school.
I remember I had the choice of doing my homework, paying attention, getting in trouble....and also getting hurt.
But, I would always have a home to go to after school.
Alot of life's first lessons were learned there for me...
And, I still went home after school.

I think life is alot like this.
As I've stated before, I had an NDE and it was like finally arriving and belonging where I started from.
I had been there before.
There was no question of it.
I, like many people was struck with grief and horror on 9/11. I will never forget.
My belief is that after all our hardships and lessons, we go back home.
How great it will be for those that did not have a home here on earth! [Toothy Grin]
The loss of loved ones is a terrible burden to bare.
It is torture.
It brings forth great pain, anger, and frustration.
These are the learning blocks of growth!
Without these adversities, spirituality would be very hard to develope. [Toothy Grin] (I can't spell) [Toothy Grin]
In my experience, I have learned more from life and myself, when I had suffered.
I think it's important to remain open and vigilant towards our teacher.
If I had closed myself off, I would be a very frustrated and bitter man today!

Well....enough preaching from me.....sorry about that...

That is what I believe on the subject, thanks for reading it!
Jan 18 @ 19:22
Thanks for posting that Marcello.
You seem to hit on the meaning of life.
What can't you do anywhere but in a corporeal life while being completely unaware of the rest of existance.
Are we here to learn and make a better world? Create peace amoung ourselves? I believe so.
But also the pain and suffering we have catalyzes spiritual growth, learning, strength, wisdom,.. .

Pretty confusing. The goal of the school is to learn how to undo the curriculum and make the school useless.

I wanna go home!!! [Oh Well] [Toothy Grin]
Jan 20 @ 16:44


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